GOD What I am I Missing: with Heather O'Brien ❖ 289

Awareness is not the problem. The problem is that we don't know what to do with what we are aware of." — Heather O'Brien

What happens when a believer who knows all the right spiritual language is secretly battling a roaring tiger of anxiety? Welcome to the silent epidemic facing Christians who love Jesus deeply but still find themselves completely stuck.

EPISODE TAKEAWAYS

• The Mask of Spiritual Performance: Dismantling the unvoiced shame of loving Jesus while privately fighting daily emotional overwhelm or numbness.
• The Feral Cat Compromise: How small identity compromises multiply like country stray cats and grow into roaring tigers loose in your living room.​​

• The Exploding Milkshake Reality: A gritty, hilarious real-world look at why lingering bad behavioral fruit proves there is a hidden root that still needs an investigation ​
  
• The Root-Bound Reset: Shifting from surface adjustments to pulling up the roots below ground, drilling open waterways, and freeing your taproot connection to Jesus.

SUMMARY

In this episode of the Interviewing Jesus Podcast, host Kristen Wambach sits down with Spirit-led healing coach and author Heather O’Brien for a raw, uncompromised conversation on breaking the silent epidemic facing believers who know all the right spiritual language but remain privately stuck in cycles of anxiety, fear, and numbness. Heather shares her signature mechanical frameworks for inner healing, exposing how we subtly domesticate our trauma like "spiritual pets" and explaining her "10 + 7 = 17" equation for absolute spiritual discernment. Together, they pull back the curtain on the courtroom of real life—delivering a profound, live, root-pruning activation for high-capacity leaders walking through resource droughts and hidden, root-bound seasons.

Prayer has been ineffective because you've been praying generally when God wanted to lead you specifically." — Heather O'Brien

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🎙️ Official Broadcast Transcript

​289 GOD What am I Missing- with Heather O’Brien

Chapter 1: Introduction to Inner Healing and Spirituality(00:00 - 04:18)
Kristen Wambach (00:02): What happens when a believer who knows all the right spiritual language, serves faithfully, and smiles from the front row is secretly battling a roaring tiger of anxiety inside her own living room? Today, we are pulling back the curtain on the silent epidemic facing Christians who love Jesus deeply but still feel completely stuck. Get ready to move past safe church theories and step into a practical, Spirit-led path of raw, permanent breakthrough. Welcome to the Interviewing Jesus Podcast.
Kristen Wambach (01:01): Welcome back. Today, we are engaging in a conversation designed to simplify the supernatural and strip the performance out of our inner healing. Come with me today as we strip away the performance out of inner healing. Our guest is a Spirit-led healing coach, Bible teacher, and the host of a globally top-ranked Heal with God Podcast. She's a spiritual investigator of the heart who went from hiding an internal battle with trauma and fear on a church pew to answering a direct, whisper-quiet commission from Holy Spirit: "Will you purify my bride?" Please help me to welcome the wonderful Heather O'Brien.
Heather O'Brien (01:55): Yeah. Wow, thank you so much. I'm like, man, I'm gonna write this down. That was a beautiful bio. You're so eloquent.
Kristen Wambach (02:09): Yay, yay. So just to let you know, listeners, we have been partaking already. So just jump into the water. The water is fine. Don't you just love running into a kindred spirit? And it is so easy to commune and have that conversation. So I honor you, Heather, for bringing that to the table today.
Heather O'Brien (02:22): Come on. It is good. It really is. Thank you, thank you. Yeah. I've already asked if you'll be my new weird best friend. I'm like, it's hard to come by someone who is in love with Jesus and doesn't think it's weird.
Kristen Wambach (02:53): No, not at all. Not at all. Yes, yes, yes. In our jumping in, all right, we've already dove into the pool. Now we can just hang out and ask some really good questions.
Chapter 2: The Struggle of Emotional Pain and Spiritual Performance(04:19 - 06:36)
Kristen Wambach (04:19): So, listeners, I know that you can relate with me on this: the exhausting good Christian. Okay? That paradox. We know scripture while privately experiencing a visceral, daily emotional overwhelm or numbness. Like, sometimes doesn't it just slap you in the face when you put your feet on the carpet in the morning? You just feel overwhelmed. Heather, you've shared so vulnerably that for years you knew the right spiritual language and you served faithfully, yet you were privately fighting cycles of emotional pain that you couldn't break. In our culture, there's a heavy, unvoiced shame around being a mature believer who is still secretly terrified or stuck. How do we help the person listening right now? How do we help ourselves? Let's just include ourselves into that conversation right now to dismantle the religious performance mask so that we can finally admit to ourselves and to God that we really need deliverance.
Heather O'Brien (05:26): Mm-hmm. You know, a lot of us Christians, we know something's wrong. That's not the problem. We know that we've just had an anxiety attack. We know that we've been crying and we don't know why. We know that we're overweight, we want to lose weight, and somehow we can't. We know that we—I mean, we know we're stuck. We know that we're praying and yet we're stuck. And so addressing the problem is not really the issue. We know there's a problem. Maybe saying it out loud is part of the problem. But the real thing is, it's not awareness. The problem is you don't know what to do with what you're aware of.
Kristen Wambach (06:04): Ooh, that's good right there. Can you say that again, please?
Heather O'Brien (06:08): Yeah, the awareness is not the problem. The problem is that we don't know what to do with what we are aware of.
Chapter 3: The Importance of Effective Prayer and Hearing God's Voice(06:37 - 11:43)
Heather O'Brien (06:37): We have been praying prayers. The struggle is we keep praying the same prayers. And I might hit a chord here for you for just a minute. Like, a lot of people know how to pray. And a lot of people I'm talking to, even among my students—I think it was the other day I was just talking with a student—she was telling me the beautiful prayers that she was praying. They were eloquent. They were scripture. Yes! But also, how are they working for you? And that's where we really have to kind of say, "Huh, I haven't really analyzed that. I'm just gonna do it because this feels like the right thing to do. This feels like the right prayer. This feels like the right scripture. So I'm just gonna keep praying it."
The moment that I really found the best help for myself and for other people is when I stop and say, "How's that working for me?" and just really be honest. Can we be honest for a minute? That prayer's not working. It might work for some other people. For instance, I was helping this one student, Emily. She wanted to know how to get free of this one struggle in her life. And that one struggle didn't make sense because all the prayers worked for every other struggle. She had all these kinds of addictions in her life; it was just crazy. But why wouldn't this other addiction go?
So I said, "Well, what prayer have you been praying?" And she said, "Well, I just asked God to take away that desire." Huh. And that actually worked for all of the other addictions, but not this one. And so doesn't that just ruffle your feathers just a little bit? Like, God, come on! What the what? And so I just had to plainly say, "Well, how's that working for you?" And she's like, "Well, it's not." And I'm like, "Okay, so can we do something different? Do we have permission to just start fresh here?" Prayer is the answer. Hearing God's voice is the answer. Talking to God is the answer. But sometimes He wants you to say something different.
Kristen Wambach (09:13): Amen. Amen.
Heather O'Brien (09:14): And so knowing the something different is the struggle. That's why we're stuck—we don't know the different thing to pray. And so we're continuing, basically, maybe it's like what Jesus said about babbling. He says, "Stop babbling." And I think sometimes our prayers are babbling because we're just repeating and we've got the repetition going on. And you know what? It's not working. He really wants an effective prayer. Prayer's just communication with God. And so if it's not effective, what's the point? It's like me and you just babbling. I mean, I want to get to know you. But if I already ask you where you're from and I keep asking you, "Well, where are you from? Well, where are you from? Well, where are you from?"—I mean, that's gonna get old at some point. I'm not gonna be interested in this conversation anymore. I don't think God checks out; He's way more patient than we are, but He would like a different question.
And so that's when—I love how you introduced me, you said the Spirit-led investigator. I'm like, ooh, I might need to put that on my badge right here! But that's where we can be an investigator that says, "Okay, when did this start?" We assess the situation. What's really here? What am I feeling? What am I believing whenever this thing happens again? So maybe your struggle is procrastination. Okay. Instead of just saying, "God, help me to quit being a procrastinator," how about you think about, "Well, God, when am I procrastinating? Around what?" Is it house cleaning? Is it doing that menial task that you don't want to do, like laundry or dishes? Are you procrastinating going to the dentist? Are you procrastinating going to your annual visit? Like, I bet it's more specific than you've ever given yourself permission to even think about. So when you think about it and you assess the situation—not to condemn, but to really investigate—ask: "When am I procrastinating? Is it just around certain tasks, or is it around certain people? Is it around certain times of the year, or certain times of the day?" Because when you start assessing the situation, you can really find out, "Okay, I can ask God a few more questions, like, why am I procrastinating this particular thing?" And then you start digging a little bit deeper. We can go from there. You can ask me some more questions. I know I've been like yapping for a hot minute, but--
Kristen Wambach (11:07): Yeah. There were a couple of things that seemed highlighted in that, Heather. So when we take the word prayer, there are some connotations there that we should probably just shake off. You know, if we open up the box of what we thought prayer or that communication with God is—how we've done it before, how we were taught to do it, how our parents taught us to do it, or what we understand—let's just open up that box, take the word prayer out, and allow it to be refreshed. Refreshed. And then the other word that seemed to be in this box that you were opening up was that word permission. I love that word. I love that word. And I get into that place where—the times that I know that prayer word, that conversation word, that listening architecture in my own spirit—I have to go, "Wait a minute." And I go, "Holy Spirit, I give You permission to communicate this to me."
Chapter 4: Permission and Conviction in Healing(11:44 - 16:09)
Heather O'Brien (11:44): Yes. Yes. So important. Permission's so important. You know, one of the best prayers to pray is Psalm 139, verses 23 to 24. It's David's prayer, and what he's doing is giving God permission to convict him. He says, "Search me, O God, test me and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life." So what he did was give God permission to convict him. And conviction seems to be this, you know, naughty word. And I'm like, why? Well, I want to be pruned because pruning—okay, it hurts for a second, and then you repent and you grow exponentially farther. So you want healing with God? It takes a little bit of pruning sometimes. It takes a little bit of conviction, a little bit of repentance, a little bit of forgiving. Because all of that just stifles your growth. And so when you cut that off—you cut off the unforgiveness, you cut off some bitterness, you cut off some bad agreements—what have you got left? You've got growing, beautiful fruit, an abundant life with God. So permission's really important. It's a key. It's actually one of the number one things I would tell you to do today for your inner healing. Give God permission to convict you.
Kristen Wambach (13:07): Mm-hmm. I will agree with you. I will agree with you. One of my favorite nuances or personalities about Father God is Father God as a righteous judge. You go before the courts of heaven and you stand there where accusations are just, you know, called forth. And at that point, I love it because I go, "I'm sorry. Yeah, I agreed with that. Father, I'm sorry. Yes, I did agree with that." And that wonderful, wonderful place of—I've just given the Judge permission to sift out everything, every lie that the enemy has tried to attach to me. And the beautiful part of David's prayer there that you mentioned is let's go to the end of it, "so that he can live in everlasting life." So if we went here with everlasting life, which Jesus paid for for us to begin the eternal now, that's what we get by allowing Him to convict us. We get the fruit of that. It's so good.
Heather O'Brien (14:24): Yeah. Come on. It is good. It is good. And if you go back to John 10:10, the thief came to steal, kill, and destroy. But Jesus says, "But I came that you might have a rich and satisfying, abundant life," depending on what translation you listen to. I'm like, I want them all! I want all of those activities going on. A rich, satisfying, abundant life is what He wants for you. But the thief wants the opposite. He wants to steal your joy. He wants to deprive you of any peace. And he wants to kill you. He wants to kill your joy. He wants to kill your life. He wants to kill your marriage. He wants to kill your family relationships. He wants to kill your finances. He wants to kill every part of every nook and cranny of your life, and then ultimately, you. And God came to do the opposite. And so all you have to do is take on a sweet little posture: "Holy Spirit, I give You permission to convict me, to prune me, to trim me, so that I might have the abundant life." Yeah, why wouldn't you take that exchange? It's a beautiful exchange.
Chapter 5: Overcoming Fear and Shame(16:10 - 20:37)
Kristen Wambach (16:10): It is a beautiful exchange. And let's—we're gonna unpack that. Because there are times where fear will say, "Ooh, that isn't a beautiful exchange." For some odd reason, we might have relational issues with other people or some of our, you know, parental personalities in our life, and we take on those personalities, and that's not who God is. So when we give permission and engage in that pruning, sometimes the pruning is the personalities that aren't supposed to put labels on your life.
Heather O'Brien (16:48): That's right. That's a good point. Yeah, fear—and sometimes we let fear protect us. And we don't—I mean, saying that out loud is like, "No, we don't." But I'm gonna push back a little bit. I know I have. I know I've let fear keep me in isolation. I know I've let fear keep me small. I know I've let fear shut my mouth. I know I've let fear do a lot of things to, quote-unquote, "protect" me. However, it wasn't protecting me; it was keeping me small. It was keeping me in a little box. It was keeping me tidy. If you knew me now, I'm not the one that's gonna be tidy. I'm gonna scream to the rooftops, "Jesus loves you!" But fear says, "You're not safe over there." Guilt says, "You did something wrong. You can't move forward." Shame is gonna tell you, "You are what went wrong." And unforgiveness is going to tell you, "Well, if I release this, then justice might not ever happen."
And these are the things that we want to protect ourselves with because these are voices that we've been listening to, but they don't really define a child of God. I mean, Second Corinthians 10:5 says to take every thought captive and make it obey Christ. And that means that we don't let fear, guilt, shame, and unforgiveness preach to us all day. We bring those thoughts to Jesus and we ask: "Is this true? Should I be silent and go sit in the corner? Is this from You, God? What do You say instead, God?" So if you eliminate guilt, shame, and fear—don't pretend like they aren't there, but you bring them into the light, you repent, you renounce false agreements, you forgive where you need to, you declare God's truth—you're gonna find that you're living the abundant life that God intended for you to have.
It's not supposed to be so hard. However, if you're stuck, that's when I would say, "Hey, come along with someone who can point these things out to you." Because a lot of times we have voices talking to us that feel really reasonable. I know shame sounds really reasonable. I think I coached some students yesterday, and it was like, when the Holy Spirit revealed what He did, the whole group had our mouths wide open, jaws dropped, like—but that seemed so reasonable two seconds ago! And when the Holy Spirit exposed it for what it really was, and showed it wasn't twisted up in what felt like justice, it was like, "I've been holding on to that, and that's really gross." But now I can let it go because now I can see how gross it is. But you can't see that without the Holy Spirit shining His beautiful light on it. And sometimes you need someone else to come alongside you to do that. So, you know, get around the Body of Christ to help you do this. You don't have to do this alone. And sometimes you can't do it alone, and that's actually okay. God never meant for you to do it alone.
Chapter 6: The Spiritual Pet Compromise(20:38 - 27:09)
Kristen Wambach (20:38): Heather, I'm going to ask you some questions about your metaphor, your spiritual pet compromise—settling for hidden identity shifts or treating old anxieties or coping mechanisms like house pets, those familiar spirits like house pets that we feed rather than strongholds to break. You have a brilliant and highly out-of-the-box analogy about those spiritual pets—the stray compromise, the identity thieves that move into your internal house and multiply like wild country cats, feral cats. I just love the metaphor. And eventually, they start growing up to be like roaring tigers in our living room. Why is it so incredibly easy for believers to domesticate their trauma and make excuses for anxiety, and how do we practically stop feeding the spiritual pets before they take over the entire temple, which is ourselves?
Heather O'Brien (21:35): Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, so here's my analogy. I had no pets before, and we live out in the country. We had a couple of cats come by, and my husband's like, "Let's get some cat food." And I didn't know any better. We started feeding some cats outside. The two cats—we looked at them one day and were like, "They're both pregnant." And then they both had babies on the same day. So I went from never having a pet before to 22 cats that I had to figure out how to feed. And they were all outside cats. And I use this analogy for the spiritual compromise in our life because, what's up? One: I compromised my porch, my driveway, because we had 22 cats. Guess what came whenever I fed them outside? Ants and their mess! There were paw prints all over my car. There was a lot of mess going on. And then I had to buy the food. Can you imagine the bags of cat food that I had to buy? Like, they were bigger than me! And so the money—there was money involved. And you think about that, and it's like, okay, I stepped in their mess, I had to clean up their mess, I had to feed their mess. Like, it was a continual process.
And compromising our life spiritually looks like—well, let's just go with a lie. Like, "Well, I just kind of gave a little white lie," but then someone asked you a question, and you had to take that white lie and turn it into a green lie, and then it folded over into a pink lie. Like, there was just this big ball of mess until you didn't even know what the truth was anymore, and you were just stuck. That's what compromise is. One compromise equals a ton of sin. It just builds. It builds and builds and builds. And that's what we do with fear. One little compromise over this identity shift, like: "I should go sit in the corner and be quiet. I should feel guilty. I should be afraid of what other people think about me. I should be afraid that they're abandoning me. Or, you know, they haven't messaged me back, they probably hate me. They probably are mad at me. Maybe they died." Like, there are just all these "what-ifs" that go on in our mind.
And what those are are little, tiny identity shifts, like: I should be afraid of abandonment, I should be afraid of loneliness, I should be afraid of XYZ, whatever it is. And so we take on this guilt, the shame, and the fear as identities at some point. They turn into our identities. And until you clean up that mess a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time, it's going to overtake your life. It'll affect how you respond to people, it'll affect your finances, it'll affect your work situation. I had someone come to the workshop recently who was dealing with outbursts of anger. And even her workplace was experiencing this, and they asked her to come to my workshop. They said, "Would you please take time off and go?" And I'll tell you, when we get down to the bottom of it, it's maybe not what you think. It's not really these little things—what is it, the things that spoil you? It's not the little things. It was—yeah, she had a ton of little foxes in her life.
Kristen Wambach (25:26): The little foxes, that one.
Heather O'Brien (25:32): But really, the truth is, it came in at a very, very young age. So it seemed like there was this big, giant tiger in her life that she let loose, but it started with the tiny cat that she fed outside. I don't know if that makes sense. But she got a letter when she was a really, really young little girl, and her mom had just decided to abandon her and leave her. That's a terrible story. She took on the fear of abandonment. And then from there—I mean, can you imagine how much sadness is there? And then you don't grieve it, and you don't know what to do with it as a young child, and then it turns into anger, and then it turns into bitterness, then it turns into rage. Right. So this is what it looks like to have compromise in your life. It's like feeding this outside pet, and it turns into an inside pet, and then it turns into a roaring tiger that's just roaming loose in your house. And so if we don't deal with these little identity compromises, we end up affecting everything. And this story is all in the No Fear Allowed book. If you want to grab that book and workbook, that's all in there. If you really are dealing with fear, I'd say go check out that book, No Fear Allowed.
Kristen Wambach (26:40): Mm. Mm-hmm. I love that. Great answer. I love the cats. And we forgot about all the fleas and the other stuff that they bring into the house. The fleas not only attach themselves to the cats and you, but anybody else in the house. So it's a metaphor that keeps on giving.
Heather O'Brien (27:00): Oh my goodness, yeah. Come on, that's it!
Chapter 7: Experiencing God's Love and Healing(27:10 - 28:18)
Heather O'Brien (27:10): It keeps on going. It really does. And especially if you've ever had a cat, you really get it. They can tell you a lot about what a spiritual pet is doing in your life. And it might even seem like—I have an inside cat now, and she's like, nonchalant, doesn't do anything but sit in the sun and bother you occasionally. But you think about that spiritual pet in your life—it only bothers you when it's hungry. It only bothers you when it needs a little pet. And when is that? Is that when you get a financial bill and you're like, "I can't pay this"? Is that when your one friend does this one thing that you wish they would never do, but they did it again? Here they go. It only hits occasionally, but still, it's still bothering you. It's still in there.
Kristen Wambach (27:55): Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, that's a great story. That's a great story. Yeah. Yeah, because I love metaphors and I love the visual. I was going, and it was hidden in the sunshade, you know. And I was thinking, the sunshade is what blocks you from the heat of the day. So, okay people, you can just run with that one on your own.
Heather O'Brien (28:16): Beautiful visual, right? It was the grossest thing. Come on now, it was hidden. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Chapter 8: Navigating Religious Legalism and Emotionalism(28:19 - 29:39)
Kristen Wambach (28:19): Okay, I'm going to drive this a little bit more personal. Let's take a little bit of a turn here and kind of address religious legalism. You know, we have rules, no spirit, we get freaked out about the supernatural. Sometimes we have like a hyper-emotionalism. Sometimes the church says, "No feelings, squash them, you're not to feel." But the feeling, the experiential things, like you just said—you heard God because you experienced the vibration moving in your body. So you could feel the atmosphere, that you were technically seated in heavenly places, feeling. That's where you were. But sometimes legalism doesn't allow us to have that relational anchor—an anchor in the supernatural, or maybe our physical eyes can't see but our spiritual eyes can see quite clearly.
Chapter 9: Hearing God: The Equation of Truth(29:40 - 30:26)
Kristen Wambach (29:40): You teach a unique equation for hearing God clearly: 10 plus seven equals 17, where the 10 laws of Moses meet the seven spirits of God, meaning the Word plus the Spirit equals absolute Truth. He is just welcomed into the room right there. For the individual whose brain is constantly buzzing with confusion, spiritual static, or a bit too much scrolling on their phone, how does this formula act as a hard defensive shield against deceptive, lying voices of the enemy?
Chapter 10: Skepticism in Prayer and Healing(30:27 - 32:50)
Heather O'Brien (30:27): I guess really the root of it is you might be skeptical. You might be skeptical of that prayer, or ask, "Was this God's voice, or my voice? Or how does a formula really work?" And I'm like, well, let's talk about that for just a minute. I really get it because a lot of people have prayed. I prayed, I read the books, counseling, you tried to forgive. A lot of people say, "I've already forgiven. What else you got?" I get that. And I'm never going to tell you just get over it, because that's not the answer either. So if someone's saying prayer can bring healing, and you're saying that sounds too simple, I'm going to say this: Prayer has been ineffective because you've been praying generally when God wanted to lead you specifically. And you might be skeptical of the feelings and things, and maybe that's fair. Maybe that's fair. Feelings don't define that God's there. He might actually enhance your feelings and things like that, especially at the very beginning of your relationship with Him, because He wants to confirm it. But also, He might pull back a little bit and see if you still believe by faith, because isn't that the foundation of our faith? We believe by faith that Jesus is who He says He is, and that He died on the cross for us.
And so, what I'm saying is, instead of saying, "God, just take this anxiety away," for instance, and then hoping something happens, why don't we just change the prayer and make it more specific? Right? And then it's like, well, what is this anxiety connected to? What belief is underneath this? When did this begin? Well, God, do I need to repent of anything, forgive anyone, release anything, declare something? Because there is a next right step. But the Holy Spirit wants to show you what that next right step is instead of you just throwing out all the prayers that you need to pray, basically. And so, I understand the cynic, I understand the skeptic, I understand that you've already tried it. But have you tried to be more specific according to what God is saying? Not according to what you've already done, but according to what God is saying now. Have you tried what He's saying now? Do you know what He's saying right now?
Chapter 11: The Journey to True Healing(32:51 - 34:41)
Heather O'Brien (32:51): And I guess I want to go a little bit deeper because a lot of times people say, for instance, like, "I've already forgiven, I already did that thing." And I get that. But what if there's another layer? Is God allowed to point out anything else? Because when you say you've already done it, it's almost like a slap in the face, like, "Well, I'm already done. Let me close that box right now." And God's like, "I really want to help her heal, but she won't even open the box back up." And maybe we're scared of that box. Maybe we're scared of opening that box again.
But true healing means there is no more fear. True healing means I can open that box anytime. I can talk about it, I can testify about it, because it's all about Jesus giving glory right now. You want to open that box and give God glory. That's what—the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. So if I want to prophesy to you, I'll tell you, man, Jesus radically saved me, healed me, and delivered me, and I can tell you all the nitty-gritty details. And so when you can't tell the details, I'm going to say, why are you afraid of that? And God wants to heal that. So yes, you can be skeptical, but also, can you be open-handed a little bit more? Can you let God back in just another minute and say, "Okay, I think I forgave, but God, is there anything else I need to forgive?" Can you say, "God, I feel like this anxiety doesn't mean anything, I'm just anxious. But also, Heather said I should ask You some more questions. So, is there something specific I'm afraid of?" Would you just go a little bit deeper? Because I think that God wants us to just be a little bit more open-handed. He's not afraid of your skepticism. He's not afraid of your questions. He's not afraid of a few more questions. Could you just be in a conversation with Him and just ask Him some more questions about it instead of acting like you've already got it figured out? Even if you still have the struggle, you're not done.
Chapter 12: Investigating the Root of Issues(34:42 - 37:38)
Kristen Wambach (34:42): I do have my phone on do not disturb, so—it was my ch-ching from my Etsy store! It was right there, so I'm thinking, that was a prophetic ch-ching.
Heather O'Brien (34:58): That was on the money! That's what that was—on the money. Come on. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Kristen Wambach (34:59): To piggyback around around that again—not behind it, around it—because I have heard that in my own life and with other people who I mentor and encourage: "Been there, done that, already did that," you know. But if it's still manifesting in your life, you're not finished.
Heather O'Brien (35:29): Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, I got a funny story about this. Like, this is literal, this just happened a couple of weeks ago. I was smelling this rotten milk smell in my car. And I went fishing—like, what happened? No, I still have young kids. Okay. Well, I had dropped off a kid at camp, and we had picked up lunch on the way, and I forgot to check back there. He's not even in the car, he's not even at home. Well, he had chicken nuggets and a milkshake back there. Okay. So I throw that out. A couple of days later, the smell is still there. And this goes back to your point. The smell is still there. There's still rotten fruit. And so I investigate. And I investigated about three more times, and that smell was still there and getting grosser. But I couldn't find anything, couldn't find anything. And so I really understand your pain when you're saying, "I've already forgiven. I've already done deliverance. I've already been to the altar. I've already prayed the prayers. I've already done it." I really feel your pain.
But I prayed and I was like, "Holy Spirit, why is my car smelling?" And He revealed it in the most crazy way. I pulled out the back sunshades to my car. And when I pulled them out to put them over my windshield, I smelt the smell even stronger. So guess what? There was another milkshake. There was another milkshake that had exploded in the pocket of the passenger seat—my little kid's. And I—so there were two milkshakes. Do you get it? There was a milkshake from Chick-fil-A, and there was a homemade milkshake from a protein shake. I'm like, I don't even know when I made it! It had exploded, it was rotten, and it was the grossest mess ever. And I'm telling you, the smell is revealing there's rotten fruit. And so you keep saying, "I've already done it, I've already done it, I've already done it," and I'm like, but is the smell still there? Can you investigate a little bit? There's probably another milkshake.
Chapter 13: Resource Drought and Spiritual Abundance(37:39 - 39:11)
Kristen Wambach (37:39): Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, that's a great story. That's a great story. Yeah. Yeah, because I love metaphors and I love the visual. I was thinking, and it was hidden in the sunshade, you know. And I was thinking, the sunshade is what blocks you from the heat of the day. So, okay people, you can just run with that one on your own.
Heather O'Brien (38:20): Beautiful visual, right? It was the grossest thing. Come on now, it was hidden. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Kristen Wambach (38:24): Okay, I'm going to drive this a little bit more personal. Let me give you a scenario. If we're navigating a severe resource drought where you've been a faithful, raw kingdom worker, but it's not matching up with the external financial facts. And we know what Paul talks about, being in that oneness, yet he was still in prison. So sometimes it leaves us waiting on—I'm not going to say just a word from God. It means the manifestation of the word from God that you have been stewarding and holding. So leaving the asset completely, like we put it up on the Judge's bench. We have gone after it, taken care of the accusations, and it's there just waiting. And there's like this white-knuckling of a performance engine.
Chapter 14: Questions that Uncover Spiritual Roots(39:12 - 40:39)
Kristen Wambach (39:12): I'm moving on here. Heather, I want to bring this straight into the courtroom of real life for all of us listening who are caught in that intense, high-pressure standoff. The subject matter could change, but we know that there's abundance there, but we're right there in that high pressure. And sometimes that pressure cooker is just trying to get some of those triggers to jump back on us again. We love Jesus deeply. We're fearlessly tracking with our sovereign assignments. Yet on a practical Monday morning, the kingdom platforms are producing zero revenue. External facts look like financial prison cells. They're physically and emotionally exhausting, and wrestling with that false baseline belief—we're just wrestling with this. You teach that God reveals roots through questions. When a leader is sitting in that exact resource drought—and that word resources is very open, whether it's healing, whether it's financial release resources, whether it's connection, open doors, we know that the resource word is pregnant—what are the three deep questions that need to be asked to Holy Spirit to expose the root of the exhaustion, to be able to leave our concerns sitting safely on the Judge's bench right there on the mercy seat, and let God take total responsibility for His own promise?
Chapter 15: The Importance of Being Open-Handed(40:40 - 43:08)
Heather O'Brien (40:40): Okay, so that's deep. That's deep. And I'm imagining several scenarios over here. Personally, I know what it feels like to have that oxymoron. I'm a Jesus lover, I'm doing exactly what He said, yet I don't see the fruit. And I have felt Him kind of come back and say, "Okay, is the fruit up to Me or not?"
Kristen Wambach (41:04): Yes.
Heather O'Brien (41:05): "Okay, so if the fruit's up to You, God, why aren't You showing it?" And He's like, "Well, there are some blockages." And I know we always think we're done, but if there's not fruit, there's proof that you're not done. And I guess I've just got to go back to that perspective of, like, I know you think you already did it, but a lot of times the Holy Spirit shows me there's one more thing holding up the line. And sometimes there are many things. And I think we're too scared of that. We're scared of it feeling so overwhelming. And so God knows that, and He takes us down a journey. He takes us down a journey of one thing at a time. And I'm like, "God, I did everything You said. I did this, I did that, I did that." And He showed me the whole plan. And then I say, "What am I missing?" That's one of the best questions you can ever ask God. "What am I missing?" and sit there and let Him tell you. I have found so much fruit from that one question: "What am I missing?"
Now, I know a list of things that I could be missing. I mean, it could be, do I need to forgive anyone? Have I come into an agreement that I shouldn't be in agreement with? Is there something, you know—so what am I not aware of? Like, sometimes you just don't know what to pray. And that's the best place to be, if I could be honest with you. "God, what am I missing?" And if you can sit still for a minute, He's gonna show you something that's gonna be like—and then, if I could be so bold, the next question would be: "God, would You help me to be open-handed with this and be able to come back to You and ask You again, what am I missing?" Because we often think we're done and we just run with it, and we're like, "Okay, where's the fruit?" And He's like, "I wasn't quite done talking. I just gave you the one thing because I didn't want to overwhelm you." And we ran with it. We ran with it. And so if you could go back and you could do some more investigative work: "God, when did this start? What am I believing? What do You say is true?" There are a lot of good, great questions, but one of the best questions that you could ask three times is: "God, what am I missing?" and continue to be open-handed with it. You're really gonna find that God loves to continue the conversation later instead of you saying, "Okay, I'm done." And when you start seeing the fruit, don't think that you've got it all figured out, because you probably don't. Just keep asking, "How can I optimize this?" especially when it comes to finances, because He wants you to live an abundant life. So if you're just now being able to pay the bills, now it's like, "Okay, God, how do I pay the bills and add to savings?" Right? So it's like that with our healing journey. It's like that with our finances; it's like that with our relationships. "God, we're not arguing anymore, that's great. But how can I, like, fall back in love with them again? And how can we stay in love again?" Like, you can keep building with God. It doesn't have to be just this mediocre, "Okay, I've arrived," and let's move on from there. Like, keep building.
Chapter 16: Connecting with Heather O'Brien(43:09 - 45:22)
Kristen Wambach (43:09): Thank you. I have a couple of things cooking in the brain. I'm going, okay, do we do both things, God, or do—yeah. So, I have a prophetic idea for us, but I'd like you again to share with our listeners about your workshop, your book, remind us again where can we find you? Would you please let us know how we can connect with you?
Heather O'Brien (43:42): Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So sometimes you just need help slowing down to hear what God is actually saying and get down to the root of the struggle, and then you want to know what to pray. You want to do what we're talking about. That's why I created the Heal with God Workshop. So go to HealWithGodWorkshop.com. It's a free online event that happens every month where I give you a Spirit-led framework to help you identify what's really underneath the symptom, hear God more clearly, and then know the next right step to take in your healing journey. Because the symptom's not your identity, the struggle's not the whole story, and God's not confused about how to heal what you've been carrying. Go to HealWithGodWorkshop.com, you can sign up for that. And you can find the Heal with God book and the Heal with God podcast anywhere that you look for books and podcasts.
Kristen Wambach (44:53): Mm-hmm. And your main website is what?
Heather O'Brien (44:59): Yeah, HeatherOBrien.net.
Kristen Wambach (45:01): There you go. Yay. Wonderful. And yes, listeners, as you know, if you've been listening for a while, all of those links and goodies will be in the show notes. Because some of you are driving to work and you can't just log those things down, I have everything for you in the show notes. Just click on over and it'll be so easy to connect with Heather.
Chapter 17: Pruning Roots for Spiritual Growth(45:23 - 54:13)
Kristen Wambach (45:23): Now, Heather, this is what I saw in the spirit, and I'm going to lay down the prophetic thing that I thought because I feel you praying through that. What I saw—because we've talked a lot about, you know, pruning and forgiving and all those wonderful inner healing and deliverance things that we already know to do and have done, been doing it for years; we're mature people walking in loving Jesus—but what I saw is, I went, "Ooh, it's been a while." So sometimes we assume pruning happens above ground. But we forget sometimes we have plants that have been in a pot for such a long time they become root-bound. And any master gardener at some point in time would pull the plant out and prune the roots and put it back in fresh soil. And that's what I am pulling from you in the gold as an activation. Would you lead us through pruning some of those actual roots that are below ground?
Heather O'Brien (46:37): Wow. Yeah. All right, Holy Spirit, show me what to do. God, I just thank You. I thank You for the listeners. I thank You for the warriors who are root-bound—and isn't that all of us at some time? I just thank You for what You're doing in each and every one of the listeners right now. I ask that You would show them the names of the roots, that they would be able to identify the name of the struggle, because sometimes naming the thing is the hardest part of it. They only see the fruit, but they don't know the name of the root. And I'm asking, God, that You would give them the name of what they are afraid of. They know it's the spirit of fear, but of what? What is really underground? Is it fear of abandonment, fear of loneliness, fear of the unknown? There is a specific name that's gonna untap the mystery that they have been seeking. And once they have the name of the thing, then they can actually prune it with You. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, Father. Thank you, Holy Spirit, for that name.
Yeah, that's usually the investigative work that I do with each and every person that works with me—naming the thing. And it's not always something that you just don't know. I just don't think that we know it apart from the Holy Spirit. I'm often amazed, and my jaw is dropping like, "Whoa, what was that?" I mean, yesterday we had students, and every single one of them left with a very specific name for the root that made no sense until the Holy Spirit connected it. I must say, unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to you, you might not know this, but I'm praying right now the Holy Spirit will. And take time to listen, 'cause He'll show you. He'll show you.
Kristen Wambach (48:47): Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm going to add another couple of metaphors to that root-bound pot while we're sitting in this pregnant moment where what Heather just released is working. It's working. So I encourage you, listeners, just put your hand on your heart. Let me just talk metaphorically so that Holy Spirit uses this time, this quiet place, this listening place, so that Heather's word and her faith can go forth and the anointing that's on her life will rake it through.
So, I have citrus trees that are on my pergola right now, and I replanted them a couple of years ago. But remember, when we have pots, sometimes the roots can be overgrown and root-bound. There are times that your pot gets so full that literally you need to take a drill and open up the waterways, because some plants hate to have wet toes. You've got to get the flow going so that the water can go through instead of holding in and becoming stagnant. I have a very large potted tree—it's a curly willow—and it's terribly due for me to go in and prune its roots so that, in the pruning of the roots, it allows the resources from the soil to actually feed the mass of the tree that we enjoy seeing above. And I wanted to point out in this metaphorical picture that when you're allowing Holy Spirit to prune some of the roots, what it does is it takes away the fight from stealing resources from the taproot. And that taproot is where you're connected to Jesus in the spirit. So you've got your spirit, your soul, and your body, and it just opens up the flow—that taproot. Anything else you want to piggyback on that, Heather?
Heather O'Brien (51:05): Wow. That was deep. That was deep. I think, you know, the deeper the roots go into Jesus, the more you can have more and more abundant life. I think that we have to remember that. You're allowed to have more. You're allowed to have more. You're allowed to go deeper with Him. And everybody listening already loves Jesus, they already know all this stuff. But I'm saying, dude, there's more! There is more. And the trimming really brings the more.
Kristen Wambach (51:41): It does. It does. Heather, thank you for spending this time with us. Thank you for opening up the vat of the well of who you are and sharing yourself with us today.
Heather O'Brien (51:54): Yeah. This has been an awesome, awesome, Spirit-filled conversation. I'm so excited that I got to meet you and got to have this time together with you. I pray that the listeners are blessed as much as I've been blessed.
Kristen Wambach (52:07): Thank you again.
Chapter 18: Outro and Spiritually Brave Closing Thoughts(54:14 - End)
(Studio production element: Intro ONLY Video no sound IJP.mp4 cuts to host for final broadcast sign-off)

The Silent Epidemic of the Front Pew

We have built a modern church culture that accidentally rewards spiritual performance while inadvertently ignoring internal trauma. It is entirely possible to know scripture fluently, maintain a heavy calendar of kingdom service, and look completely put together on the outside, while privately experiencing a visceral, daily emotional overwhelm or numbness the moment your feet hit the carpet in the morning.
Heather O’Brien lived this exact paradox for years. She knew the vocabulary, she was a dedicated homeschool "boy mom," and she never missed a service—yet she was secretly fighting brutal cycles of internal panic. The turning point arrived when she dropped the exhausting performance mask and answered a direct, whisper-quiet commission from the Holy Spirit: "Will you purify my bride?"
The breakthrough began the moment she realized that awareness of a problem isn't the same thing as healing. We know when we are anxious; we know when we are procrastinating or burning out. The real barrier is that we don't know what to do with what we are aware of. Instead of moving into specific communication, we tend to throw generalized, repetitive phrases at the ceiling, turning our prayer life into ineffective babbling that yields zero real-world momentum.

Domesticating the Tiger: The Feral Cat Compromise

To illustrate how hidden emotional strongholds take over our lives, Heather shares a brilliant, highly out-of-the-box analogy about "Spiritual Pets." Living out in the country, she and her husband noticed a couple of stray cats on their porch. They decided to buy a little cat food to be kind. Within weeks, those two outside cats became pregnant and gave birth on the exact same day, instantly turning a pet-free home into a chaotic environment overrun by 22 cats.
The mess was everywhere—paws on the cars, fleas, tracking in dirt, and a massive financial bill just to keep them fed.
This is precisely how compromise functions in our spiritual architecture. It starts with one tiny, seemingly harmless identity shift: I should probably just sit in the corner and stay silent. I should feel guilty. I am probably going to be abandoned. We feed these minor anxieties and coping mechanisms like little house pets, thinking we have them under control. But compromise multiplies exponentially. Before you know it, those tiny outside cats have moved into your living room, completely untamed, roaring like wild tigers through outbursts of anger, road rage, or paralyzing fear. You cannot domesticate your trauma and expect to live in an abundant home. You have to stop feeding what is actively trying to destroy your temple.

CONNECT WITH HEATHER O BRIEN

Heather O'Brien Website
Heal with God Podcast Facebook Page
Heal with God YouTube Channel
​Heal with God Instagram 
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LinkedIn Heal with God

Do you love God but still feel stuck emotionally, spiritually, or mentally? You’ve prayed, tried to forgive, and followed the steps you thought would bring peace, but somehow you’re still carrying shame, anxiety, or unresolved hurt. You are not alone, and it’s not your fault.
Heal with God is here to help you finally break free. This book isn’t just a collection of ideas. It’s a faith-filled, step-by-step framework that teaches you how to hear God’s voice clearly, find emotional and spiritual healing, and walk in lasting freedom. Inside, you’ll discover practical guidance for

• Breaking cycles of shame, guilt, and self-doubt
• Overcoming anxiety, depression, and mental fatigue
• Forgiving those who hurt you or left before giving closure
• Rebuilding confidence in your identity in Christ
• Walking in peace, purpose, and a consistent connection with God

Each chapter guides you with biblical insight, actionable tools, and personal reflection exercises so you can begin healing immediately, even if you’ve felt stuck for years. You’ll learn how to assess the root of your struggles, uncover the lies keeping you bound, and apply God’s truth to every area of your life so you can finally see real, lasting transformation.
This isn’t just theory. It’s a framework used in live workshops and coaching sessions to help Christians step into freedom from anxiety, depression, relational trauma, and emotional overwhelm. While the book gives you the tools, the real breakthrough comes when you put them into practice with God’s guidance.
Whether you’re seeking clarity, freedom, or a stronger connection with God, Heal with God offers hope for your heart, a roadmap for your soul, and practical ways to walk in victory every day. Your healing journey doesn’t have to wait. God is ready to meet you where you are, and this book will show you the way one step, one prayer, and one truth at a time.

The Hidden Milkshake and Root-Bound Faith

If you are a mature believer who has been to the altar, gone through counseling, and declared forgiveness repeatedly, it is deeply discouraging when old symptoms manifest again on a Monday morning. Heather illustrates this with a gritty, hilarious real-world story. After taking her son to camp, a foul, rotten milk smell began consuming her car. She investigated and threw out a stray bag of chicken nuggets, assuming the problem was solved.
Days later, the stench was even grosser. She prayed, asked the Holy Spirit to show her the source, and pulled down the back sunshades. There, hidden deep inside the passenger seat pocket, was a second, completely forgotten protein shake that had exploded in the heat.
The spiritual lesson is uncompromised: the lingering smell proves there is still rotten fruit, which means there is another milkshake hidden in the shadows. True healing requires us to be open-handed enough to let the Holy Spirit shine His light into the boxes we think we’ve already closed.
During our conversation, this revelation triggered a profound shift. True inner healing isn't just about trimming dead leaves above ground. Often, high-capacity leaders become completely "root-bound," like a plant that has outgrown its pot. The roots become so tightly wound and congested that stagnant waters back up, choking out the main taproot. When you allow the Holy Spirit to prune those roots below ground and drill open the waterways, it eliminates the exhausting internal fight for survival and clears the flow so your spirit can drink deeply from Jesus again.

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The Strategy for the Resource Drought

When you are navigating a severe resource drought—whether in your health, your emotions, or your business platforms—the natural reflex is to white-knuckle the performance engine to force a breakthrough. But if your kingdom assignments are producing zero revenue and the external facts look like a financial prison cell, human grit will only accelerate your exhaustion.
The antidote is to step squarely into the courtroom of heaven, leave the asset completely on the Judge’s bench, and implement Heather’s primary strategy. You must sit perfectly still, remove all distractions, and ask the Holy Spirit three times deep:
"God, what am I missing?"
Stop trying to manufacture the emotional high or manage the execution of a vision that belongs to the Father. When you ask Him what you are missing, He will bypass your surface symptoms, identify the specific name of the root under the soil, and take total responsibility for His own promise. You are allowed to have more than a mediocre, surviving faith. Give the Righteous Judge permission to prune the background static so you can step into the rich, satisfying, effortless momentum of the eternal now.

The deeper the roots go into Jesus, the more abundant life you can have. You're allowed to have more." — Heather O'Brien

🎁 Coaching Church Activations

"God, What Am I Missing?"

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MEET THE AUTHOR & PODCASTER

👋 Hey There! Meet Your HostI am Kristen Wambach—your host on the Interviewing Jesus Podcast, an ordained pastor, experienced spiritual coach, and a Strategic Systems Consultant dedicated to helping kingdom leaders build sustainable blueprints for transformation. As a spiritual investigative journalist of the heart, my mission is simple: to help you strip away the exhaustion of religious performance, simplify the supernatural, and build a practical, clear path to the abundance Christ promised.​

Whether we are parsing out deep scripture or drilling open the stagnant waterways of a root-bound season, I am here to help you connect with your God-inspired DNA calling so you can operate out of effortless momentum on a practical Monday morning. Let's stop white-knuckling the engine and start living Spiritually BRAVE!

🛡️ Final Thought: The Choice on Your
​Monday Morning

At the end of the day, true inner healing isn't defined by the depth of your theological vocabulary or how high you can raise your hands on Sunday morning. It is defined by what happens inside your quiet room on a practical Monday morning when the pressure hits, the resources look low, and the old, familiar tigers start to roar in your living room.You don't have to live your life root-bound, white-knuckling a performance engine that was never designed to carry the weight of a sovereign vision. The Righteous Judge is not asking you to manufacture your own breakthrough. He is simply asking for permission to pull you out of the tight, stagnant pot of human grit, trim away the hidden compromises, and clear the flow to your true taproot connection in Jesus.
The next move is entirely yours. You can keep throwing generalized, repetitive prayers at the ceiling, or you can drop the mask, pick up your pen, and have the raw courage to ask: "God, what am I missing?"
🚀 Take Your Next Step

• Walk Through the Activation: Don't just let this episode be passive background noise. Scroll back up right now, find a quiet space, and actively work through the Coaching Church Reader Activation steps. Let the Holy Spirit go three questions deep with your heart and name the specific roots holding up your line.
• Follow & Subscribe: If this conversation challenged you to strip away the performance and live Spiritually BRAVE, make sure to follow and subscribe to the Interviewing Jesus Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube so you never miss a real-world masterclass.
• Explore the Library: If you are ready to dive even deeper into practical paths, raw stories, and simple activations that unlock your God-inspired calling, check out my complete library of books and companion journals available on Amazon and major retailers. Let’s stop surviving the wilderness and start anchoring our lives into the uncompromised Truth of the kingdom.